Back story, my family has known this other family for almost 8 years. Our kids are friends, and go to the same school. We been really close for a long time and celebrated all our big events together, combined holidays, helped move house, delivered medicine and dinner when the whole family got sick etc. They’re the friends that become family type. Around 18 months ago, the other couple split. They share 50/50 with their 3 boys (6yo and 3yo twins), and still both live like 10 minutes away from our house and each other. It’s mostly going pretty well, the kids are coping nicely, and we have stayed friends with both partners and see them separately with and without their kids, like when they were married.
Since the split I’ve noticed a bunch of changes in the mum’s behaviour that I’m wondering how to talk to her about. She’s been very thoughtless and selfish and feels like she’s taking me for granted. It also feels like she’s on the way to damaging her relationship with her kids. I’d really like some advice about how to bring it up, or if I should at all?
She complains all the time about how bad her kids are. That they’re messy, rude, naughty. Even normal parenting stuff like having to cuddle them, or play or cook or clean up after them. They’re really not bad kids. No behaviour or spectrum concerns. Just healthy, active boys and mostly very polite and awesome. Almost all our talks and PM are about how hard it is the 3-4 days a week she has them and the complaints start only an hour or so after she gets them back from their dad’s.
She is only focused with finding herself after the break up. I understand that, there was lots of unhappiness for a while before they got out, so she needs to work out who she is again. But she’s only thinking with her own needs, everything her kids need takes away from her. She has whinged that they need a bedroom because she could set up a clinic room for her massage business, that she needs to make room for their things in “her” house and that it ruins her sanctuary, that she has to arrange school and daycare, and that she has to remember to wash clothes and make dinner, that she can’t dig up the lawn to make a veggie patch because they need room to play.
She gets obsessed with different lifestyle ideas and then makes room for it by getting rid of the kids’ stuff. The kids are fed and clothed, but have almost zero toys and books at her house. Then when they get bored and find things to do like unrolling toilet paper, or bringing sticks and pinecones inside, she gets angry and sends me photos about how bad they are making extra work for her and doesn’t accept that they’re bored kids who need to be kept busy. It's like anything negative the kids do is a personal attack on her, not kids being kids.
She actually seems to hate them and resent them for existing at all. I get life doesn’t go how you pictured, but she just spends all her time being angry it’s not like a Kmart catalogue, and the kids must sense her bitterness. She keeps telling me how much she hates being a parent, and how she wishes she never had them.
Her discipline is kind of on or off. She ignores them while they go wild or she tries to organise them with super strict control. And says “why can’t they just be good” when she ignores them, and “they just hate me nothing I do works” when she tries the other end of the scale. There’s no consistency, she just gets bored and stops trying. She never punishes them dangerously, or hurts them, but she’ll decide that there’s no dessert or no TV or something and then just let them have it anyway because it’s easier. She's cancelled going out to a local farm or the movies as punishment before, but then a couple hours later wanted to bring them to my house instead because following through with the punishment and keeping them home annoyed her.
She has no interest in their school or calendar. At pick up every day, and sometimes in the morning the day of, she’ll ask me what’s happening. Her kids are in different grades to mine and it’s all in the newsletter which is emailed and on an app, and in paper. She just doesn’t read it. I end up remembering a different bunch of time tables so I can remind her of things otherwise the kids miss out.
She forgets when she has the kids. Once I even had to take home her kids from school as she hadn’t shown up and wasn’t answering her phone. (Dad was working and got them afterwards and took them back to her house) But she’s always booking her work appointments (she’s self employed and flexible) for times when she has them and asking me to have them.
She asks to come over for dinner often - we used to do that all the time, but now she asks “because I don’t want to cook” or “I’m sick of the kids” We have a bit of an open-door policy at our house, but we don’t want 3 extra boys who are hyped up and bored so she can ignore them. Her visits on the weekend and after school are the same too, coming somewhere else so she doesn’t have to actually pay attention to the kids.
She forgot last January was school holidays. She booked an appointment for Jan 8 and then asked me if I could have the boys for a bit because on the 2nd of Jan she “forgot it was still holidays”. That was okay, as I had no plans, but the time she’d booked turned out to be over dinner - so even if there was school it was a time she should have had them at her house anyway. It’s like she only thinks about herself, I just don't think that a parent of 3 kids who’s been doing school and kinder for 3 years could forget that the first 2 weeks of Jan are holidays and you have the kids and that 6.00pm is a bad time to book something kid free. This happens at least every couple of weeks, "I forgot it's my night with the kids and I have an appointment, can you have them?"
There’s even a difference in the kids when they visit us with their mum or their dad. Dad comes with a bag with nappies and a change of clothes and snacks and stuff. Mum has her handbag and water bottle and then needs a nappy from my stash and the kids eat my snacks. Dad hangs out in the garage and plays pool with my hubby, but stops playing to check on his kids and change a nappy and stuff, but she just tries to send them all to go wild in the garden and ignore them, then rolls her eyes when any of them come in to ask for something. I've even switched the brand of sunscreen I buy because the twins are allergic and she so often doesn't bring her own. The behaviour in the kids is different too, the lack of attention mum pays versus their security with dad is really telling. They're more settled and less clingy with dad, and the way they respond to a request or scolding is obvious too.
She complains she has no time for herself. She has taken up with a new partner and spends almost all her kid-free days with him, then tries to cram all her work and hobbies into the time she also has the kids, then gets annoyed that the kids want her time when they’re with her.
I dunno... am I being overly critical? Or should I say something? I’m sure she’s taking advantage of the fact that I am almost always willing to have her kids, but I feel like I can’t say no to minding them, because for me it really isn’t a big deal to have my “extra babies” over, I love those kids almost like my own, and the odd times I actually can’t have them and she’s made a booking, her response is “ugh, kids” like it’s their fault for inconveniencing her, not hers for forgetting she has responsibilities, but if I say no, and she has to find other care or move something, I don’t want them copping the obvious resentment she has for them for “interfering” in her life. I tried giving her a while to adjust and be supportive, even when things were rough in their marriage they were pretty equal partners in childcare and housework, so I knew managing a house on her own would be a big change, but instead of getting on with it months down the line, she’s just complaining at me, and hating on her kids. I just want the kids to be happy, and by being available I feel like I’m protecting them from her BS as much as possible.
I know parenting is hard, and I'm not a perfect parent to my 5, I forget stuff, and shout at them, and sometimes just want a holiday from it all. I also know how bad it is being judged for doing the best you can. But it feels like she’s not even trying, and actually trying to get away from them on the times she has them. It’s very hard to find sympathy for someone who just had 3 days to herself, when after less than an hour with them she’s annoyed that her kids want to play. It’s gotten to a point where I just want to tell her “they’re your effing kids, do your job and quit whining”.
So - do I say something? And how?
6 Replies
My SIL went like this but also very self absorbed, kids would be eating 2 minute noodles for dinner because she couldn't buy much food that week but still managed to get hair and nails done that week. I wrote here about what to do and got hammered by people telling me to mind my business so I hope this does not happen to you too. I don't think people realise the risk of neglect. All my SILS kids now live with her ex, that might be the eventual direction for this family. If she genuinely doesn't want them around and he does then she won't put up much of a fight if he goes for full custody.
Argh, I just wrote a huge insightful novel about a friend of mine who's similar then my internet dropped out 😡😡
The tl;dr version of that:
Don't bother speaking to her, she doesn't give a fuck. Sorry, blunt I know.
Stop letting her use you.
Speak to Dad, you're obviously friends with him too. He's likely painfully aware of her cold indifference, he may need to consider full custody.
You may be seeing some of the reasons mum and dad don't get on so well. He's probably hidden a lot of this for a long time and now her true self is emerging. Not all women are meant to be mums. I'd be talking to dad first and then maybe encourage her to let them stay with him and she just have one weekend a fortnight and some school holidays. The kids sound like they'd be better and happier with dad too. You can't keep doing 8 kids forever. Your kids and your relationship need you too. Sounds like you are being an awesome friend to the kids and both their parents.
I've been this parent . The one who couldn't deal with my kids anymore . I was so busy working and my ex had way more free time so anything other than work became too much for me. It's been 10 years since then and things have settled down beautifully. I still work a lot and the ex still has more free time than me , but somehow I always still end up doing more . It's better now tho that the kids are older but it's such a struggle for the first few years after a separation. Dont judge her too harshly yet just keep being you and know that it will all work out . Might take a few years like I did but eventually this will pass and she will be ok and so will the kids .
My sister acted like this after her divorce, her behaviour was insane and she expected everyone else to have her kids while she was partying, getting her beauty treatments, blowing her money, she wanted my parents to give her money and resented having children to be responsible for. We fell out for a few reasons but there was a very self absorbed, disarrayed, chaotic period of time she went through. Her ex had cheated on her and she felt justified in living life her way but her kids did suffer because of it even though our family was there for them, thier relationship with thier mother changed and is still repairing years later. It’s hard to deal with this as a support person who is being taken advantage of and not considered at all. I don’t know if saying something will help, it seems like you’re tired from her high needs but feel obligated to do it. You can still support her but need boundaries. You decide what you give and leave it at that. It will be awkward at first but there’s a way to handle it and maintain the connection.
My post has made it to FB and there's a few bits that people don't understand. Hopefully this makes it back there, I don't know if the mods post updates or whatever. I know it's kinda long, but I try to give a better idea so you IMs can see why I'm a bit over it as well as worried. Obviously I can't post screen shots of our messages, but I am using her words exactly when I quote her.
Those who have said it's the change in behaviour and that it's getting worse is why it's a problem, and you're absolutely right, it's not just a one off. Her attitude is getting worse since I posted on IM in the first place. Yesterday and today (she got them on Wed), she has a bunch clients while her kids are at another friend's house because a couple of my kids have gastro, but she spent last Friday through Tuesday at a B&B with the bf, and sent me a message asking to visit after she picks them up tonight and to "stay for dinner so I don't have to cook." I said no because of the sick kids, and she said she was willing to risk it and besides dad is getting them on Saturday arvo so he'd have to manage it.
I really don't feel like this is "every mother I know" as one reply put it. I have never known another mother to willing risk an infectious disease to avoid making dinner, or just not turn up to pick up the kids. Or forget that the early Jan is holidays, or what days you have your children. Or lie about where she is to spend time with a new bf. She's always been a bit flaky, even when they were married, but it's getting worse.
They split in July 2017 so it's been like a year and a half. She's been with the bf for most of it I think she was single for maybe 3-4 months before she met him. She's had a bunch of pregnancy scares with him, but still brags about being so wrapped up in whatever they were doing she forgot her pill. I know this is something both of them need to manage, but she acts like its funny everytime it happens and is all "Oh no, I hope I'm not pregnant haha"
She has a psych and meds for years. I have PND and anxiety too, so I know a good friend is important and why I try to say yes to helping. She's got a new psych in the last 6 months though and says she'd made big changes which but only for her business and bf. Avoiding the kids has got worse the more her business worked and the better her new relationship got.
The bf is on work cover atm, so she can be with him all the time. They do handover, she goes to his house, lives there for the time dad has the kids and comes home to get them back. She asked me to have the kids in the morning to see the doc, texted that they were running late so if I could feed them lunch and then dad would get them because it was his turn. I found out that she was actually at the bf's place and never went to the doctors. I distanced myself for a while after that but she switched leaving the kids with another mutual mum friend until she got sick of it too.
I get she has to work more now that she's single because money has changed. But since they broke up, she has been on her own to the UK, and Asia and has another o'seas holiday soon, and lots of w'end breaks with the new guy but without the kids. She got herself a brand new camera, a purebred puppy and just revamped her wardrobe. It's not like money is a problem. She is really great at her business, but puts all her work hours when she has the kids.
I know the kids aren't being physically abused so there's not much to really complain. But more of their toys get ditched every time she has a new idea and she gets more stuff they are yelled at for touching. They get fed every night, but how often she tells me they just had toast or tin spag because she didn't want to bother is getting more often too. It reads differently to having such a big day you could only do an easy dinner. She actually says "I don't want to bother" and "I didn't care if they ate or not but they were hungry"
Reading the school newsletter mightn't seem like a big deal, but when her kids miss special lunch days, or dressing up or whatever, it is for them. At book week this year, her kid reminded her about the parade, and she was all "oh, that's tomorrow?" We'd talked about it the week before and she'd asked what my kids were going as, but I said yeah, but if they needed a costume she could borrow something from my kids. She told me it was fine, she'd have something at home and the next day, her kid was in uniform. At pickup she said "I thought it was next week!" We had that conversation yesterday and I offered something to help out. It's like she just doesn't care if it's not about her, which is really sad to see that kid missing out, and also annoying because she just completely didn't listen to either her kid saying it was the next day, or me when I backed him up.
I have tried making gentle comments and suggestions in the past, but get ignored or pushed away. If I say how about booking appointments when she doesn't have kids, she tells me that is her time. She asked about toilet training her twins, but when I suggested a different way to hers, she replied with "I just want to be told I'm doing things right." When the twins painted with vegemite, I suggested they were bored as she had just cleared out a bunch of things to the opp shop, and she told me "but that needs space and I just got all that back for myself!" So I'm not sure another conversation with her will really make a difference, but I will talk to dad
Thanks for sticking with me, I hope this made stuff clearer for you.